I’ll do my best to explain this as clearly as possible. I’ve been stewing on this for quite some time now, observing, and asking questions everywhere I go, and to various people I meet, and I have come to a semi conclusion on my original hypothesis. The theory is as follows:
Jay-Z fans and Nas fans follow two primarily different paths in life, one hungering for the limelight and riches, while one takes a more conservative, non materialistic approach to living. Simply saying, does the average Jay-Z fan desire a little more out of life than the average Nas fan? Before you start your rants, hear me out, you just may learn something about yourself.
Jay-Z and Nas, by all accounts, are two completely different people. While Jay has been straight-forward since 1996, aiming for the good life, women, business, and wealth, Nas on the other hand has primarily gone the conscious route, not necessarily advocating the finer things, and emphasizing a more conservative, righteous lifestyle. This leads me to believe that their fans coincide with this, and with all of my research this has generally proved to be correct.
Jay-Z fans listen to him because he signifies their goal in life- a wealthy businessman/woman from the ground up. They are motivated by his words, and his persistence, along with his arrogance, and “Fuck you, Pay me” persona. Nas may interest them as an artist, but he is far from someone whose life model they would follow. Most would view the life that the other side lives a failure.
On the flip side of the coin, Nas fans latch onto him because he is, well, everything Jay-Z is not, from a different perspective. The atypical Nas fan nearly opposes most materialism, and usually hungers for the knowledge that he expresses in his music. They are not caught up with trying to be rich and famous, they don’t care about the hot car of the moment, and the like. The simple things in life are the most important to this person, and they feel they have lived a successful life by doing this.
Which leads me to ask- What exactly defines “Success”? Is it a definite, clear-cut institution, or is it in the eye of the beholder? Is it adding massive funds to your bank account, and standing atop the social stratosphere, or is it the man with a great job, a wife, and a healthy family? Meaning, is it the Jay-Z fan, with the hot girl, and the Range Rover, or the Nas fan, in the less expensive vehicle, with the love of his life?
Just to remind you, I do not intend to create some type of Jay-Z Vs Nas debate here, because this has very little to do with them as artists, and more to do with our connection to them. This is also not me calling Nas fans “inferior” and Jay fans “superior”. This is me doing a general sweep of the goals/mindsets of them.
Take a good look at your life, and see where you fall into this theory. There are always exceptions, but if you’re able to be objective, you just might agree with what I’ve said.
COMMENTS
Oh shit, you finnaly posted it
You do raise a point in the "what difines success thing"
*Standing O* *Leaves and goes to the range rover with the hit girl* HOLLA ATCHA BOI
Damn thats deep. I like Jay though more than nas. but i find myself in a place like nas.Average income enough to support me and my girl but enough to buy her things too. Anyway good article really good thought process in it.
GOOD EDITORIAL! SUCCESS IS GETTIN WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF LIFE NO MATTER HOW BIG OR SMALL. 2 MEN 2 PATHS SAME GOAL: SUCCESS!
I am glad to have been part of this test and have helped in this extensive study that you went through to complete this theory. Very observational are we? But so true. I was expecting more. :0(
To some extent i can see what you're trying to say but i really cant feel this article. I dont know if youre overlooking that Nas was in Belly, a major motion picture. Doesnt seem like the move to make if you shine away from limelight.
Good work Fullmetal.You are right about the Jay fans, me being one of them.I want to be sucessful in the economical sense,which I believe most blacks should want.This brings up a great debate, sadly by this afternoon this editorials will be filled with stupidity from the typical morons who visit the mainboard.
good shit FM, all tho i wouldnt fall into any of these catagories cause i like dem both....But Ive seen sum people who like Nas more an still have tha same type of drive as Jay-Z fans. Great topic tho
A+ article.
nice post man i agree, i learned in one of my classes if u are materialistic and dont have money to support ur lifestyle u will be very unhappy but if you are materialistic with money u will be as happy as the person who is not materialistic and the things that really really make you HAPPY is having close and intimate relationships, giving back to your community, believe it or not its backed by actual stats and research, because material things are comparable so if just got the new ipod or car in a year from now it wont make u happy its only temporary happinness
thats serious...cant agree all the way but u made good points. A+ writing
www.myspace.com/sthamogul
I believe we all suffer from the guilty pleasures of materialism to some extent. But why not enjoy the finer things in life? Especially if you came from a life of struggle or hustlin just to make it. I believe that success truly is in the eyes of the beholder. For neither one of the two could really be considered unsuccessful. They are just two of thousands of examples of what success can be. Whether your success is making it as a single parent, being a college graduate, being your own boss or pullin the baddest chick while clockin the biggest bank account its all about what makes us happy. Success is doing whatever POSITIVE things that bring us the most happiness.
I'm diggin this editorial. Must say I do like expensive stuff at the same time my life is not focused on just obtaining material shit. I feel the harder you work for you and your family the harder you should play with the rewards. Me being a follower of both careers - with Jay being my favorite artist and Nas my second. I think the two fan bases have far more in common than not. Anyways good shit Fullmetal!
i think im in between both of these two lifestyles, cuz im happy wit my mp3 player thats not an ipod(lol)but i still be tryna get them hundred fifty plus dolla shoes tho. and im not feedin into this too deep, but what would it mean if you are a big L fan.
Listen.... Their fan base is the same.... Nas began rapping on topics Jay-z eventually got to...Nas is getting a lil more limelight these dayz that Jay kinda started off with .... So i think they plotted this out to a certain level...
Jay-z Showed and Proved that he was the real smart guy...Jigga won Nas bow and sign to his label or DefJam
Jigga won what! It damn sure wasnt their lyrical battle and defjam isnt his label its still russells jigga's just the prez so really it was a smart move on nas's part because he blew up even more with defjam than he would have if he wouldve stayed with sony
I'm with u Radamez...
The only reason why I give Jay the lead when it comes to these 2 is because NAS pisses me off faith wise. Every cd he's a believer in a different relgion...
Kufi or Cross Nas...that's my only question!
But I still love the fuck outta both of them... Period!
GREAT F'N EDITORIAL!
~Be Eazy!
Damn thats deep im a true Na sfan and like him i dont like to be center of attention, and im concious and everything i say, but i can see why Die hard Jay-Z fans like him so much he is a good buisnessman and do whatever it takes to make money and feed his family........or hisself lol
Wiz - what up my dude. That's a good point you brought up. I felt the same way about Nas. Overall these dudes are two of the best that have done it.
Jay Z tells you al; the time that he is a hustler turned rapper. Remember he was gonna retire after Reasonable Doubt. Jay-Z is a beast and I'm pretty sure he loves Hip Hop but Nas was BORN to rhyme. He never professed to be a big time dope dealer (except during his brief Escobar dilema). They are both great at what they do. Their fans like their music and them as people because as artist they seem to personify what they rhyme about. Unlike these new artist like Lil Wayne that go from not cursing on a record to being Tony Montana himself.
I listen to both artist equally. They both say thought provoking shit. But just in different ways. Nas in more thoughtful but Jay is has more Wit. Both artists choose beats that cater to there rhyme style. I think there fans just like good music.
on point I Like
I Think Nas Raps about How far People can Go In Life But Jay-Z Rather Make Himself A Prime Example
Good got damn article Full. The definition of success to the individual determines a lot about their personality and coincidentally which artist the believe is better. Personally I've found myself listenining to more Nas as I get older (30 right around the corner) and start to define and redefine what I believe is success with the path/career i've chosen. I now have a better perspective but if you asked me 7-8 years ago it would have been more Jay, reflecting my mind-set at the time of trying to create my own success.
Again good shit!
They both successful but in different ways....... You become successful when you set standards or goals forth and accomplish them.... But its IMPORTANT in my opinion to measure success as GROWTH....... something that benefit you and your family postively......
Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, for once, FULLMETAL posted something of SUBSTANCE! I will say two things before I leave work for the evening:
A) I am a NAS fan. And,
B) I will FULLY comment on this thing, IN-DEPTH, in the a.m. I haven't shut any Jay fans down in a while.
Wow this is amazing this article has made each oine you find and define yourselves as women or men its either jay way or nas way that's how ill will view myself well not me I like there music and its stops there for me honestly I. My own man I don't think neither one of these dudes reflect my life pattern I listen to nas and jay and at the end of the day there oin there way and I go mine I've read some people say iam just like jay or I take a more of a nas approach how about yyou just be yourself and let's see where that takes you because it seems to be workin for me o but good article though you've made everyone find there path sad but true
Los out
FUCK DIS NIGGA JAY Z Y DID HE HAVE TO STEAL BIGGIE SMALLS LYRICS WAT BIG WEALTH SWAGGER JACKKER HES A WASTE OF TRASH LIKE LETS BE REAL NOW HOW DA FUCK IS DIS NIGGA JIGGA GONE CLAIM HIS YOUNG HOVA FUCKING DUM ASS OOO YEA BEYONCE IS A DEMON FREAK BITCH NAS COME ON NAS HOW HE GONE SAY HIP HOP IS DEAD WEN JIM JONES BRANG IT BACK THEN LIL WAYNE JAS GOT HIPHOP MIXTAPES FLOATING IN THE AIR WEEEZY KILLING IT RIGHT NOW HAAAA HAAAAAAA YOUNG MONEY CASH MONEY DIPSET TILL DEATH ZU WUUU TO DA B GANG
first nigga its su wu u dumb bitch and jim jones and weezy are y hip hop is dead cuz niggas dont kno they hip hop history and y is u talkin cuz u probably dont listen to hip hop cuz jim jones is garbage he aint ballin as he claim and weezy can get killed by this list:1)cassidy,2)nas,3)papoose,4)eminem,5)proof {god rest his soul},6)mos def,7)talib kweli,8)fabolous,9)the game,and 10) jay z so learn hip hop and then come back class dismissed
disagreelos1: I agree with what you said but I have yet to see anyone say I am like Jay or Nas. People connect with artists for all types of reason. Only a Fan'atic' will pattern their life after an artist.
Great observation. I am a fan of both artist, but I place Nas on the top of my list because he has just a little more positivity in his rhymes. Now as far as the article goes, I can identify myself to the Nas way of life theory, but I just bought an Infinit G35, so does that mean I am materialistic.
I GUESS FULLMETAL'S WORTH A DAMN
INTERNET HATER, please take your coon ass back to the Mistrel Show.Thanks in advance
alls i can say is i like Nas, don't like Jay-Z at all.. but i hate both of their fans cause they think they're better than everyone and everything. They think cause they listen to Nas it makes them sophisticated and above everything when really, they aint shit.
"what you base your happiness around? material, women, and large paper?, that means you inferior, not major" (no ideas original)
Nas is a more spiritual person than Jay...eventhough i still consider Jay a conscious rapper. Jay told yall "truthfully, he'd rather rhyme like Talib Kweli",
but he is just a damn good business man.
Now gettin back to the subject, i feel that Fullmetal has a valid point in that what ever artist is your favorite im sure you feel a deep connection with them where you at in your life or where you wanna be in life..but one couldn't say that they are flat out just like an artist that they admire...that is borderline "stanism".
And as for my personal feelings on the subject, i just got mad love for Nas because he (90% of the time) is trying to elevate the blackman in this wilderness by droppin jewels into his intricte rhyme patterns. That is true to my culture, which is freedom, justice, and equality.
And to those that question Nas' faith, i beleive he has foundations with 5% knowledge, wisdom, understanding....but that does not limit him to just being a follower of one faith, because his culture is based on a way of life, not religion.
PEACE
i like them both i would say nas more because his lyrics are deeper...also since when could nas not live a lavish, flamboyant life?
this is total bullshit. i am a avid jay fan since day 1. i measure success not by me gettin women, money, and hot cars but gettin what i want. if i want that hot car i gonna get it. now for those who choose the nas route, it may be me, but their usually haters. they feel as thou you tryin to out shine them. dont get it fucked up, i liked nas every since illmatic, but what about "it was written" he was esco. that dude was all about money then he decided since i aint eatin like jay im goin the conscious route. so when you talk about who really real hands down jay.
INTERNET HATER — about 4 hours ago
Jim Jones brought hip-hop back?????
(Pause)
WTF?
Yea jim jones is top 5
Worst rappers haha
Nice writeup but I believe I am an exception. :)
I'm a fan of both, but I'll always be a Jay fan first. My likeness towards them is based solely on their lyrical ability and composition. They're both at different ends of the style & substance spectrum. Jay is more on towards the style end of the spectrum and I believe Nas is more toward the substance end. Don't get me wrong, they both have a little bit of each, but each one just has more of either trait.
Wholly my opinion people.
Forgot to add that I'm a Jay fan but I think I live a lifestyle more like a Nas fan, as you've defined.
Ima Nas fan (best mainstream artist alive)
Jay n Nas grew up in different lifestyles...lemme educate ya
Nas dropped out of High school in 9th grade......
Dude taught himself about black history and how far black people have come....before slavery.
Thats what he deleiver in his messages (political, history, Society)
Man nas taught me some blk history non of ma teachers teach us at school..
Yes jay the more business man then nas....(Jay was nice in his younger years)
And for the fans....when u show me an scientific study showing that Fans base makes a difference and who can relate with who
then ican agree with some parts of article..
Nas fans might be bigger then jay than u know it...
Man, Jay-Z and Nas have the same damn fan base. If you like Nas, you like Jay, and vice versa. Tomayto, tomahto. The rift only began when they started beefing back in 00-02, and people chose sides. Nas and Jay rap about the same damn stuff, or have, throughout the years. Boths superior wordplay, flow, and production have caused them to have very successful careers. And, for BOTH of them, it's NOT just music. I don't know WHY people don't think Nas don't have cake! 'Cause he ain't on none of those lists? What!? Both Jay-Z AND Nas are FILTHY. Believe that... Jay and Nas are like A.I. and Kobe.
I personally believe that Nas is the greatest storyteller of all time and that his flow and wordplay are a few notches above Jay's. But I love Jay to death and believe that, overall, he is the 3rd greatest rapper of all time, though he's been kind of lackluster lately, primarily on cameos, such as Rihanna and Beyonce's joints. But he's still doin' his thing.
The fan bases are basically, people that love the type of Hip-Hop that is multi-dimensional. Both have just straight ripped a track, told stories, speed flown like Bone, slowed it down for the ladies, made "spiritual healing" tracks, made party tracks (mostly Jay, though), and kicked knowledge (mostly Nas, though). Nas says a lotta shit that makes you press rewind like, "Did he just SAY that!?" And many of Jay's tracks have an INFECTIOUS beat that you never want to stop listening to. Being an avid Nas fan, I'll admit that sometimes, even I get bored with listening to him. So, I switch to Jay. And when I get bored with both of them, I switch to someone else or listen to some R&B. Just depends on what type of mood I'm in.
But, I concur with
disagreelos1
when he said that he does not pattern his life after these rappers. It's an image they present, period. I am my own man; my own person. I like their music, but don't pattern my life by what they say and project on the tracks. Besides, both of them are always switching it up anyway, based on how THEY feel. I follow my own path.
By the way, FULLMETAL said that Nas is everything Jay-Z is not. What? Are you seriously serious? Nas and Jay-Z are so one in the same, it's crazy. This post is already long enough, so I'll leave you all with a quote from each of two of my all time favorite emcees:
Jay - "...do you dudes listen to music, or do you just skim through it" (paraphrased!)
Nas - "... you thinkin' life's all about smokin' weed and ice. You don't wanna be my age and can't read and write."
Um... That has absolutely nothing to do with the Editorial, dude. You're talking about their music... Fullmetal is talking about the fans connection to the artist based on their similarities to either Jay-Z or Nas.
So... did YOU read it, or just skim through it?
Fuck Success Nas is the shit becuz Nas is the shit hands down he can rap circles around all these new faggots in the game Jay -Z too fuck a fuckin theory thats a waste of time I like Nas and Jay-Z becuz I do not cuz their successful FUCK THIS THREAD
You're a retard. Did you even READ the editorial?...
dang thats really true in allote of ways i find myself in more of a 49/51 thing nas/51 jay/49 and nas was in belly but he was still talkin that knowledge stuff
[reply] Eviscerate — about 1 hour ago
Um... That has absolutely nothing to do with the Editorial, dude.
- Evis, REREAD what I wrote, the RECOMMENT. You gotta dig beneath the surface, my dude. I "try" to be a deep dude. If you sincerely interpret what I was saying, you'll retract the ? you posed. Thank you for both your time and your patience.
I meant to say, "Evis, REREAD what I wrote, the[n] RECOMMENT...
Exactly... you TRY to be a deep dude, but you failed miserably, as what you posted had very little to do with the editorial itself. You took it in a completely different direction for some reason.
Now I can see why you hang out on the main site. No-one is able to see through your obvious stupidity.
Good theory, in some ways i agree wit what was said, http://www.datpiff.com/Str8-Business-Life-or-Death-Entertainment-The-Eay-mid3190.html
This dude Eve is so funny. CAN SOME1 SAY THE WORD 4 ME, OR DO I HAVE 2 SAY IT, AS USUAL??? JOKESTA, do the honors 4 me... begins with a "c"..
Wow, something else I JUST NOTICED is that this character, Eve, takes so much time to comment on other people's comments (O.P.C. (ha!)) that HE actually NEVER made a comment on the "editorial". Again, funny... I like this dude, though... he's not on my level, but HE IS alert & aware... though, his awareness it's skewed, I give him more credit than the average-young boy- defsounds- hanger-on.
On another note, Jokesta, I like this new setup y'all got where you can specifically reply to someone's comment rather than copy and paste what they said. ... I like! Keep steppin' y'all game up!
What, are you calling for crowd support now? Now I see why everyone says you're too bitch to come to the forums- you're too content being an idiot right here. I've been paying attention, kid. You're just been swinging on this guy Fullmetal's nutsack for the longest now. Did you notice you were the only one who got the point of the editorial wrong?
Guess that makes you unique......and retarded.
First off this article is B.S and was intended to "draw some type of Nas vs JayZ debate" or why would you have even said it ... They are two diffrent type's of "MC's",because there not rapper's ... Yes while one has been able to accomplish much wealth,the other has been able to stay true to himself,and also be wealthy aswell ... And while Jay's flow has droped slowly but surely through out the year's,name one MC that's flow has not only stayed excellent,has gotten even better and better with time Like Nas .No one has been in this for so long and stayed being considered arguably the best ...
QB,
I fully concur with you... ESPECIALLY THE 1ST sentence... and 4 all, of course, if u go back and read my comment, you'll see that I tied all my comments BACK into the editorial quite nicely.
Secondly, "crowd support", Eve? Like you saying now you "see why 'everyone'" says I am quote "scared" to come to the forums? Ha... funny... who is everyone? And, YOU still NEVER commented ON the alleged editorial! This dude is funny... skewedly aware, but funny... which is why I'm even entertaining his comments. Ha. Obviously, he NEVER (notice I continue 2 say what he NEVER did) followed directions and REREAD my comment like I told him to. Dude, what are you CREDENTIALS? I was trynna hold out but we really need them.
Instructions for CREDENTIALS:
1. Where are you from? include the city and the hood.
2. How old are you?
3. Race... believe it or not, this is extremely important.
4. Sex... same as above.
5. Favorite Rapper (if male).
6. Favorite Female Rapper.
7. Favorite Group.
8. New category... Why is Hip-Hop even important to you...
I need this information 2 continue correspondence with someone who has their own agenda or is not making sense. It gives everyone an understanding of your reasoning and where you're coming from.
1. Camden, N.J. Park$ide section.
2. 27 (March)
3. Black
4. Male
5. Nas, of course.
6. Lauryn, of course.
7. Fugees/Firm
8. Hip-Hop is more than music to me... it's life... it's culture... my culture.... there's something for everyone.
YOUR TURN...
Jersey stand up
This nigga just asked for credentials on a Main site Thread. Consider this conversation over. Your moronic nature truly shines, my friend, oh yes it does.
Credentials, LOL.
CASE CLOSED... AS USUAL...
wow tht was nicely written. i personally i am more of a nas fan because of his persona definitely, i mean i knw jay got teh flow but i do not enjoy his rhymes. i am a music crazy dude nd music does dictate my life but as much as i love nas, i am still a party animal nd i still love to make it rain once in a while. hell i even let it go down i f u knw wat im sayin here so i guess ur theory makes sense but it has itx xception depending on teh personality of teh individual nd how there music affects them
The Two Best Rappers Alive......
I'M 36 YRS. OLD AND HAVE BEEN THROUGH ALL ERAS OF HIPHOP. WHEN YOU TAKE 2 GUYS LIKE THESE 2 THEY HAVE BASICALLY THE SAME FANS SOME LEAN TOWARD NAS OTHERS JAY. NAS IS MORE OF A SIT DOWN IN YOUR ROOM AND BLAZE WHILE YOU LISTEN AND LEVEL YOURSELF WHEN LIFE STARTS TO GET TO. THOSE SAME FANS WILL GET IN THE CAR OR CLUB AND BE FEELIN JAY. NOT THAT ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. REAL HIPHOP FANS CAN APPRECIATE BOTH MC'S FOR THE THINGS THEY BRING TO THE GAME. A LITTLE BIT OF BALLIN,MIXED WITH SOME GOOD STORYTELLIN,GREAT FLOWS, SOME LESSONS CAN EVEN BE LEARNED FROM THESE GUYS AND THEIR MUSIC AND THEY HAVE FANS FROM MY AGE DOWN TO THE YOUNG KIDS JUST LIKE GREAT MC'S SHOULD. (EM,BUSTAH,LUDA,CUBE)
Big,
I definitely agree with what you just said ... I couldn't have put it any better myself .... At the end of the day though I lean very much more to Nas,just cause' of the fact that when the party is over,when the money bitches and hoe's are already old and the past,and you get older and wiser thing's change.You want to hear and something diffrent,and just cause' of the fact that,Nas for me he just has much more to say ...
In response 2 Big J L and Qb,
I SWEAR I basically said all those things this morning, but in a bigger nutshell, so 2 speak, and then got ridiculed by a hanger-on for being "off-topic"... I love it! hahahahaahaaa...
DAMN...I NEVER thought of that before but I can say I totally agree with you! I really feel that's the distinct difference between them. I personally, feel Jay better. I also would rather have his financial security and assets over just knowledge. You hit that one right on the head my man!
But still ... The crown of N.Y is alway's gonna be my dude Nas's,till' some one take's it ... And where hip hop is at right know (it's 6 feet cause' it's dead ! Oh you didn't no ? ) that's no time soon ...
Thiz iz food 4 thought u do the dishes!!
Been a NAS fan since day one...
That sums it up
Some of yall are talking like Jay aint smart...he don't just rap about cars, money, and girls...Nas talks about those things too. I think they talk about them in different ways...To me both are highly educated with finshing school (you can tell in their interviews) both of them want to be wealthy (even Nas because he talks about it in his music, yall just dont listen) both of them, in my eyes, are successful, not just money wise, both are great MCs.
Oh yeah, listen to Tha Watcher 2, then listen to Carry on Tradition Verse 2
Tell me what you think
I am 28 years old and basically grew up on HIP HOP. I won’t say I am an expert but I will say that hip hop has definitely influenced the way I am. I love both Jay and Nas and have always listened to both of them even through the beef.
I think that it just depends on where you are at in your life. If I am stressed out about money, I might put on Reasonable Doubt. Even though I am not hustling, the hunger for money that Jay expresses in the song gives motivation to get off of your feet and get that money, whether it be a part time job or hustling the motivation is there.
If I am stressed out about work or being a single mother I might put on some Nas and that lets me know that I am not the only one living in a world where being a black woman means I have 3 strikes against me, and that I have to work 3 times as hard to do anything.
Both are skilled lyrist and you can not say that about many artist today.
Crazy shout out to both, because they always have something to say. It may be positive, it may be negative but when they speak millions can relate. And that is what hip hop is about.
Holla.
COOL editorial,Jay and Nas rap about alot of the same thing.I love Jay to death BROOKLYN all day,I listan to Nas heavy weight too. and what u wrote was real.I just think Nas expresses a deep emotion on his records. Jay expresses a deep emotion but in a relief and a crafty way.Both of there insight,on another planet.lyrically GIFTED BOTH those dudes. NEW YORK ALL FUC"IN DAY
Ima Jay and Nas fan... When it went down though, I had to go with Jay(even though "ether" destroyed Jigga.) Never seen a man get destroyed like that, and at the same time, get bigger in popularity. Nas knew he was the best, but he wanted to shine also,(lets not get it twisted "It was written", "I Am", "Nastradamus") Both are very religious in their flow... "JayHova", "God's Son" Me personally....myself... I'm a very humble dude, with a flashy side. I'll wear fly clothes, but I'll be damned if I buy some red monkey, Rocawear, Sean John, or any jeans over 20 dollars, just to say I have them... Give me some 20 dollar jeans, some addidas classics and any polo shirt and I'll keep it fly... So I'm kind of in the middle...